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Author Topic: 6.5 (.264) Calibers  (Read 791 times)

Offline BoBallistic

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6.5 (.264) Calibers
« on: January 20, 2020, 07:40:10 AM »
I guess over the past three of four years, I started buying the 6.5 round. First it was the 6.5 Creedmoor in the Savage 10BA stealth from Gander Mtn (remember them) and then it was the Nosler 26. I did find a Nosler Liberty in the caliber and went ahead and bought it. (I own a 300 WSM in the Nosler TGR and it shoots the Barnes 180 gn about 3/4" at 200 yards!! so I bought the 26 Nosler because they come with Pac-Nor barrels as well). Then I purchased another 6.5 Creedmoor in a Cooper M54 and then purchased a Christensen Arms Ridgeline in 6.5 PRC and in late 2019 went ahead and purchase another 6.5 PRC this time it was a Mossberg Predator.....

Did not buy a 308 in the time frame, I know that is a shocker...LOL...but already looking at another 6.5 PRC....along with the Savage 220....that I will be getting shortly.....

Bo
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6.5 (.264) Calibers
« on: January 20, 2020, 07:40:10 AM »
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Offline yari

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2020, 12:16:13 PM »
keep stockpiling them bo. you have accumulated quite the large family. enjoy
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Offline gobihawk

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2020, 05:54:10 PM »
Bo,
Is the Nosler 26 recoil notably more than the 6.5 Creedmoor?
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2020, 08:50:34 PM »
Gobi - Yes it is...the 6.5 CM is actually less (by a smiggin) than a 308...just like the 260 is (by a smiggin).....The 26 Nosler is more like a Magnum in it recoil....it more like the 6.5-300 Weatherby or the 6.5 STW (Shooting Times Western)....this is just my opinion...but the two 6.5 Creedmoor that I have shoot extremely Well.....one is the Savage 10BA stealth and the other is the Bergara HMR B14.

The 26 Nosler is about 300 fps faster than the 6.5 Creedmoor so you would figure it would have more recoil....Now the 6.5 PRC is even faster than the 26 Nosler, they are close but the 6.5 PRC is faster and has more kick....

Just my opinion.....the 6.5 Creedmoor is very easy to shoot and has very little recoil, maybe like a 243....

Yari - Yea they are piling up and someday going to have to quit this stuff....It would blow your mind how many that I do have....got at least two of each caliber out there most of them anyway and in some cases have 4 of each and in the case of the 308's.....lets just say I have more than I need.....

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Offline gobihawk

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2020, 06:55:48 AM »
Thanks for the info, Bo. I have never owned or shot a 308. It's on my list to buy one.
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Offline Madgomer

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 07:22:17 AM »
Better grab one when you see it Gobi, before Bo adds it to his collection  --099-780
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Offline notsams

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2020, 06:40:36 PM »
Bo    I wanted a 6.5x284 norma for about 20 years. I finally got it about a year and a half ago. Because it has a 7.5 twist Krieger barrel I have been shooting the 150 gr Sierra Match and the 143 gr Hornady bullets mainly. I did try the 130 gr Scirrocco for deer and it worked very well on a Whitetail buck here in Minnesota. I think that the smaller the bore of a rifle, the more important the bullet choice is. The 6.5x284 is very similar to a 270 Winchester cartridge but the amount of high B.C. bullets available for the 6.5 caliber is far greater. The 6.5x284 works in a short action but I had mine made on a long action, that way I can leave my long high B.C. bullets stick way out of the case and they still fit in the magazine. This is probably the only 6.5 caliber I will own but so far I am very happy with it.     As of now I have owned centerfire rifles in; 17,20,22,24,25,26,27,28,30 and 45 calibers. I have no Idea what else I would need.       Have fun with the new toys Bo.

Offline Madgomer

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2020, 07:46:13 PM »
I think that the smaller the bore of a rifle, the more important the bullet choice is.
I agree 100% with that thought.

Nice collection of bore sizes Not!  Looks like you still have a few missing numbers to fill in though.   --099-780
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2020, 07:08:17 AM »
Just got in my Latest copy of Gun and Ammo magazine and up in the upper left hand corner it stated that inside the magazine was so I turned to page 80 and there it was...a report on my latest rifle....A Mossberg Patriot LR Hunter in 6.5 PRC (sort like a magnum 6.5 creedmoor).....they topped theirs off with a very expensive Bushnell scope....

I must remind folks that I purchase rifle as a backup to the Christensen Arm Rigdeline (with the carbon fiber barrel) 6.5 PRC....I topped it with a Leupold VX-5, shot the Christensen Arms but never have fired the Mossberg Patriot LR Hunter yet, and it has a Vortex Viper 2.5-10X x 44mm....so that is how it sits today...have never taken it to the range yet, the Mossberg. I think I paid a little over $400 for the rifle and $300 for the Vortex scope plus rings, and cant level may have under a $1000 in the whole set up. The trigger came from the factory (right out of the box was under 4 Lbs and I adjusted it down to 3 lbs...and also added a $20 muzzle break that I got off of Amazon....and I use lock tight during the installation of it.....

The question I am asking is how accurate does a cheaper inexpensive rifle has to be? In the Guns and Ammo magazine article they said it is a little over 1 MOA using the Hornady 143 gn ammo....I am down to under 24 rounds left of the 60 that I purchased and saving the brass to reload that I can, also found on Gunbroker a 100 pieces of once fired 6.5 PRC brass that I went ahead and purchased...so I am ready for reloading when the time is right....after the 24 rounds.....fired 36 rounds down the pipe for the Christensen Arms.....

I plan on using the Hornady 143 gn ammo for this rifles right now, but you never know what it is going to like after we take it to the range a few times....but what accuracy do you think I can expect? Is 1.25 MOA or 2.5" 3 shot group good enough to be accurate? I know this won't be as accurate a Bergara or Cooper or Blaser or McWhorter, but what do you think? Should I quit worrying about the 2.5" groups that I will be getting out? I know when I start reloading for it that I will be trying to get 2.0" groups or less out of this rifle....I will of course try it at 100 yards for the first 30 rounds to break it in then move out to 200 and then to 300 yards....

So the question is - How accurate is accurate enough?? Thanks for any repsonses......

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little foot note - One of the first rifles I got off of Gunbroker was lemon plane and simple!!! (oh no I thought)....that was back in the mid 90's....it had all the pedigree of a great rifle, but it shot terrible groups at first so I put it down for a many years...just late last year decided to get it out and to try it again..it is a 7mmSTW, with a 26" Kreiger Barrel with a Borden break, Jewel trigger (set at 2.5 lbs), HS Precision Stock and a 700 Rem action...so it look good on paper....But once I got it in the TN here I looked at it over and over again and shot different ammo in it....took the Swarovski Scope off it and put the scope on another rifle (Blaser)....so that is where I left it...sort of abandon it....but thought patients and a bunch of reloads I finally found a good combo for it....I put a Vortex CF2 4-16X x 50mm on it and reduced the reloads bullet weight to 150 and it was a miracle!! shoots under 1/2" MOA these days and now wonder if I would have measured the twist rate in the barrel instead of taking the previous owner word for it...maybe just maybe I would have saved myself a lot of heartache.....reminds you of my 7mm Rem Mag that instead of the usually 9 twist in the barrel, it had 11" twist in it....went from being a good custom Elk rifle to be a good long range deer rifle....the twist rate has a lot to do with the bullet weight you choose....



   
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Offline yari

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2020, 08:38:46 AM »
i'm not anywhere in the same league as you. I have a handful of rifles. all mine have shot very well. the only issue I ever had was my 300WM. I was at my wits end(it wasn't a far journey @--0--0105) after fighting what use to be a real shooter for years, I finally sent the scope in to Leo and it was a total wreck. Leo fixed it at no cost. I replaced it w/ a Tract Toric for my SD trip. if it wasn't for SD, it might still be on it and frustrating me. I killed a lot of animals when the Leo it when it was 'broken'. it shot 'good enough', but definitely wouldn't group or adjust

that Leo is earmarked for my savage 220. BTW, I see there is a proposed bill in MN to ban the use of rifled shotguns because, wait for it.....  THEY ARE TOO ACCURATE. seriously!!! talk about idiots making laws
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Offline Madgomer

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2020, 08:53:55 AM »
Bo, how accurate is "accurate enough?"  Y'all know this answer already, but I'll write it anyway.  It depends is the answer.  It depends on what the rifle is intended to be used for, the expected range, the skill of the user, etc.  2.5" @200 yds may be fully acceptable for someone typically shooting offhand inside 100 yds but woefully inadequate for a 300 yard shot at a critter from a solid rest.  So yeah it depends.  I'd bet a bunch of money that you will find a recipe for that Mossberg which brings it under 1 MOA. Getting more involved with centerfire rifles and reloading in recent years has been a huge eye opener for me on the importance of having a load matched up to your specific rifle, particularly the twist rate as you stated on your 7mm.  Lots of rifles get set aside or sold by people who don't understand that yet and are frustrated with "the rifle" when in fact they just don't have the right cartridge or the right shooting technique to make it perform at its true potential.  Keep us updated as you get rolling with that Mossberg, I believe you'll make it shine.

Yari - banning a type of gun because it is too accurate?  Those folks were outside too long and got frostbite of the brain.  Sounds almost as dumb as a Chicago politician.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 08:56:38 AM by Madgomer »
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Offline gobihawk

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2020, 04:22:26 PM »
Guns like these is what makes reloading, interesting,  fun, frustrating, and rewarding.
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2020, 07:06:20 AM »
Thanks for all the responses....I knew the answer before I posted the question...yes how accurate is accurate...it all depends...on a lot of factors...and where you shoot and how you shoot....knowing that a range set up and a hunting set up are quiet different...hunting out of a blind is a lot different that hunting out of a ladder or a portable....yes we all know how accurate is accurate.....

Things that I have learned to do in the past...starting in the 80's....twist rate - be sure to check the twist rate inside your barrel. This can be done using a cleaning rod....and I have found since I did go through all my rifles and I mean all of them is the document the twist rate (I use excel in my case). I have found out that the used custom rifles are the worst. They claim to be one twist rate and end of being another....this is particular problem that most folks can solve by using the old cleaning rod.....

Also don't believe the target supplied by the manufacturer...this can be very misleading.....I did not received a target with the Mossberg (did expect to have one in the box) but did do some measuring for sure....I have learned over the years that a rifle shoot better if you are using factory ammo and if you don't reload you own, that you can walk into a gun store and buy a box of the heaviest bullet you can find...for example the old reliable 30-06, it will shoot the 180 gn best and if the store doesn't carry that ammo, then 165 gn ammo will work best.....

So how accurate is accurate - I will find out when I take the Mossberg Patriot to the range and will shoot up the 143 gn ammo...I have experimented with the 260 Rem using the 127 gn through the 143 setting on the 129 gn Barnes TTSX bullet....this is one of those custom made rifles. Start life out as a Savage 10 with its 24" barrel in 308 Caliber....the original owner made it a 260 Rem, 21.5 inch #5 heavy barrel...but I did the twist rate in it and it turn out to be 1 in 8.25" (the original owner did not know)...after my original measurements, I tired all the bullets and settle in on the 129 GN Barnes, it shoots the best of all that I tried...

We shall see when I get to the range, it may take me a year of two to try them, but I will take the 6.5 PRC Christensen Arms to the range when I take the Mossberg and try different bullet weight with also....

If I can get the Mossberg to shoot better than 1 MOA, I will let you folks know, because that is when I get excited......remember Townsend (Townie) Wheelen said that only accurate rifles are interesting rifles....and he is/was right..... 

   
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Offline Madgomer

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2020, 03:39:12 PM »
Bo - thinking about your recommendation for factory ammo in a new rifle:  I'd have been in the opposite camp, and recommended something on the light end of the scale initially.  You've got a lot more data points to work from than I do, but in my case I have a .223 single shot that shot the cheap lightweight (45 grain) stuff reasonably well, but the 55, 62, and 77 grain stuff got significantly worse at 100 yds.  Started digging into it and found it had a very slow twist rate, so anything heavier/longer was problematic.  My 7mm Mag doesn't seem to care too much but that .223 was really sensitive.  Besides the slow twist it also had a problem with forend tip pressure (fixed that now I think).  Curious to hear your thoughts on why heavier is better for a newbie.
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: 6.5 (.264) Calibers
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2020, 11:11:01 PM »
Mad - If you walked out of your house and accidentally left your loaded ammo and stopped by Walmart and you had to buy some ammo - That is what I am talking about, if you were back in your corner and you had to buy some ammo cause they were the last place to find some ammo! I know all my 223 shot the 60 to 77 gn black hills ammo phenomenally well....I mean a quarter size group at 200 yards.....I must admit that I have never shot any 45 gn in my 223's only the 55 gn FMJ ammo that came with my first 223 (Colt A2) way back in the early 70's. When I started buy ammo for any of my 223, I was aware of the twist rate. My first Rock Rive AR was a 223 that I bought at a gun show and the guy was asking whether I would be hunting with it or using it on the bench, I told him that the bench was the preference, then he suggested a 24" barrel using the 64 gn bullet....I moved up to 69 gn and never looked back, this incredible rifle shoots quarter size groups using the Black Hills 69 gn bullet.....and subserviently have been using Black Hills every since....most twist rate in my 223 barrels are 7 to 9 inch twist, I do have a few that do have the 12 and 14" twist rate in them and I have to shoot the 64 to 69 gn Black Hills reloaded ammo for those suckers....

I agree with you that the slower the twist rate.....the heavier the bullet...or the Greenhill or Miller formula's both have the same conclusion about the twist rate....but there again, I use my AR15's (and AR10's) and Mossberg MVP 223 Bolt Rifle as a bolt rifle and could use the AR in true AR style but I grew up valuing ammo and still do it today....so I don't use them to their full potential....I was (and still am) thinking of 6.8 Grendel or a 300 BO bolt action rifle since I have both calibers in AR styles to use for Very close range deer hunting....

Make sure that you have a adjustable gas block. Remember the first ones, where you have to size you gas blocks? Do you get hang-ups at all? If so, check or do some adjusting on the gas block....I know I did and still do!! The forend tip pressure should not be a problem if you have the right bolt carrier installed....how did you fix it?? please let me know...thanks....

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