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Author Topic: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb  (Read 186 times)

Online MI_Bowhunter

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Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
« on: April 13, 2019, 07:27:01 PM »
interesting video on ballistics and why all handgun calibers pretty much perform the same

Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
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Offline yari

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Re: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2019, 09:11:08 PM »
basically, hit where you aim and don't worry about the caliber. good video. thx
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Offline sundowner

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Re: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2019, 12:13:06 AM »
Thanks for the info .
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2019, 10:54:25 AM »
That is some very good practical info about ballistic gel...good info to have....but the gel is only one part of the equation. The caliber at close range is that counts it is how many rounds can you put into your target and how fast can you do that. It also comes down to bullet design and as we have seen lately, there is a whole bunch of ammo and bullet manufacturers out there that is coming up with some innovated ideas and designs. It is also, as Dutch would say, practice, practice and then more practice.....and it's going to cost you more when you practice with the ammo that you are going to use for self or home defense....as I unpack my 9mm Ammo and pistols today and for the next few weeks, I will be thinking about the ammo that I use in them....and how much do I practice, how much time I spend at the range and how much money do I spend on pistols and ammo...the answer is the same...not enough time!! I have saved this you tube clip as a favorite because I want to watch it again and again. I once started looking into buying a gel mold and doing my own ballistic gel, but it was very cost prohibited!!

Also how well does the home of self defense fits your hand, your wife hand? I know many couples that have bought separate pistols, I mean different manufacturers and different models simple because of the "feel" of the pistol in their hand...you might want to fire it as well, many ranges have rental pistols that you can use to make up your mind as well as very expensive ammo that you can "buy" and they make a lot of money of this ammo, but what choice do you have? no many ranges will not let you use your own ammo! And finding the right ammo for your pistol is also key to the equation, which ammo and bullet weight does your pistol and firearm like?

Recoil is another factor as well, how well can one handle the recoil and get back on target to put another round down range....you got to put a round down range ever second or at least 3 shots in 5 seconds for home defense and much faster for self defense...for the home a shotgun is my preference, but that is such a personal choice...

With the LabRadar Doppler set up for pistol is another great tool, along with trigger pull gauge is also another tool to have....in closing up, there are many factors leading up to the ballistic gel...glad we have you tube for that reason so we can view it and learn from it.....MI good info and thanks for the link.....

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Offline notsams

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Re: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2019, 04:56:56 PM »
   Interesting reading.   I have been shooting water jugs as a means of testing rifle bullets for probably 30 years. I use gallon milk jugs with 3 pcs of chip board or plywood placed between the 1st and 2nd jugs. I have shot more big game with a 30 06 then any other cartridge and I compare all my other rifle calibers to the 30 06. My 165 gr corelock  stops in the 4th jug and in the last 30 or so years I have only recovered 2 bullets in deer. The rest penetrated completely. Where I hunt in northern MN it is very thick. If the deer runs off you better have a blood trail to follow or it becomes difficult to recover them. We have rifle calibers that won't make it into the 4th water jug unless you use premium bullets that cost 3 times as much as my trusty old Rem Corelocks. Any rifle caliber seems to make it to the 3rd jug but they seldom penetrate both sides of a deer.        This past fall I tried a 6.5x284 cartridge for the 1st time ever deer hunting. I only had 2 bullets to try and both stopped in the 3rd jug. I shot an adult doe at about 70 or 80 yards that was quartering away and the bullet blew up and didn't make contact with the far side rib cage. It ran off and I heard it fall in the woods. There was no blood anywhere and I found the deer because I heard where it fell. To me that bullet failed so I won't use it any more for deer size game and bigger. I bought some Scirocco 2 bullets that are "bonded" to try next fall. It seems to me that the smaller the diameter of the bullet and the lighter the weight of the bullet the less penetration you get. If I had to do it over again I would use the 180 gr Rem Corelocks. This is just my opinion.     

Offline Madgomer

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Re: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 10:07:22 AM »
Wow, what a great video - thanks MIB!  Would love to go shadow Johann for a day or a week and just see how much knowledge I could soak up.  I had not heard about the ~2200 FPS boundary for elasticity of living tissue, but that makes a ton of sense when comparing the lethality of various weapons (especially rifles vs. pistols).  Get a caliber you can handle well, then for your defense or carry ammo, buy the good stuff that will have optimized expansion & penetration for that caliber.  Makes perfect sense.  And yeah, I'm really tired of all the 9 mm vs. .40 vs. .45 arguments out there - these guys just did a great job of busting those myths.
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 06:03:12 AM »
I always laugh when I tell this story.

There was a series of home invasions in a community north of where I live at, about an hour Northeast. The man was concerned so he went out and bought his family a firearm for protection on Friday. He took his wife to the range and they both practice with it over the weekend....

Sure enough on Monday morning came and it was back to the old grind and the guy left for work right at 5 AM, then at 5:30 AM the home invader tried to break into the family home. The lady did not hesitate and got the pistol and starting shooting, 15 shots later, with holes in the floor, walls door and ceiling, the home invader had certainly left the area, when the home owner after a frantic call from his wife, he made sure that his wife and kids were OK, he started looking at the holes in the room where the intruder tried to enter the premises. The intruder was never hit, but the families home has never invaded since! Wonder who his second call was too? LOL....

What did the family do wrong, maybe it was a too large caliber for the woman, too much recoil? or was the pistol too large for her hand? Not enough practice? Or was it just bad timing? Maybe all the above.....

So many families buy the firearm to fit the man's hand and they don't take into the effect it will have on the accuracy of the weapon. As most of us know, range time is certainly different than actual live fire situations. You got to make sure the pistol fits the woman's hand, and not yours! the caliber has not to be too big for her. So many factors to be considered.....

Like Mad states, would love to follow around Johann to lean by listening to him..wow what an experience that would be..... 
 
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Online MI_Bowhunter

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Re: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 06:53:53 AM »
I was initially taken aback when they said they really do not pay attention to energy or velocity for handgun rounds but the science makes sense.  I, as well, would love to shadow these guys and learn more.

Even without thinking about the details of the ballistics I've always felt people should shoot what they are comfortable with. A 22lr to the vitals is better then a 44Mag that missed.  Confidence in the gun you are going to use to defend yourself is just as important as the gun itself.
 
Anyone that laughs at a 22 I would ask to stand there and let me shoot at them, no takers thus far.   LOL

Personally I like a 9mm.  There is a plethora of quality ammo for it and the recoil is pretty managable even in the +P+ rounds I carry. At 15 rounds  for my EDC  the magazine capacity is pretty nice.  Its just a good compromise of all the factors for me and I am confident in my abilities with it.

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Offline BLUETOE

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Re: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 07:39:44 AM »
Great info!! Thanks MI_Bowhunter and I agree shoot what you can hit with the best!! Period. This reminds me of being a young man and my friends and I could not wait to move up to THE 12 GA!! When all along we were killing everything we saw with a 20 ga. So we missed quite a lot at first because of recoil and had to move back to the old reliable 20 when things got bad  --099-780 --099-780. I like a 9mm because I get more shots in a clip but I can shoot my Ruger Blackhawk in .44 Mag just as well. 
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Offline Madgomer

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Re: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2019, 03:49:31 PM »
Yeah, in terms of pure accuracy, no handgun in this house can match my .44 Super Blackhawk, but if someone comes sneaking in during the night, I'm much more comfortable with the 16 rounds in my 9 mm.

Stress and adrenaline do funny things to people, even trained "professionals" - hard to say for sure how any of us will perform in one of those situations until we're in it.  Having a gun that is like a part of your body, something you don't have to think about, is a huge step in the right direction.  Practice Practice Practice (which is probably what I should be out doing right now!)
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Re: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2019, 06:18:42 PM »
I think I read somewhere a long time ago that it takes something 10K good repitions before an action truely becomes natural.    If that the case we can all use more practice.
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