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Author Topic: Price of Optics  (Read 1027 times)

Offline yari

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2019, 04:20:59 PM »
I don't want to rob your post, but my buddy w/ the cooper/swaro combo retightened after it loosened after 20 shots. now after 6 shots, it loosened again. the swaro guy recommended bushnell rings and mounts. what are your thoughts on bushnell? I know their scopes took a major step up. what about the rings and mounts?

he made an appt w/ a gun shop next week that gets good reviews. we'll see how that goes
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2019, 07:26:50 PM »
Yari - I have many different rings and bases.....for years and years I liked the one piece base (3 screws) Leupold/Redfield put out along with their two dovetail mounts....for 20 years that is all that I used, it served me well along with Leupold Scopes, how can anybody go wrong....to this day never had a problem....also love the fact that most all manufactures have gone to the 15 Torq type screw....

Today, I like the 4 screws picatinny rail system, put out by many manufacturers.....and prefer the 6 screws of the Burris Extreme rings, that is my preference. Have you looked at Tally mounts and rings, Sako mounts and rings, both are well thought out and well manufactured....

Do I like Bushnell, just depends on the scope rings and base combo....just recently, had to ordered new Tally rings for an existing custom 7mm STW that I have....the original Tally rings were to low for the scope (Vortex) that I was mounting on it, so I ordered some medium rings and when they came in thought that they too were going to be to low but it worked out really good....but the Tally rings are hard to put on, same way with the Warne rings they too are hard to install. Sako base and rings have to be just right, think they could hold up the world...

Did you buddy use lock tight on the Cooper/Swaro base? I have the exact same set up with Swaro, Ziess and Lecia and others on my Coopers and I yet to have a problem with any coopers...wish they all had 8-40 screw threads instead of the standard 6-48.....What caliber is it a 416 Rigby? it takes a lot of recoil to shake something loose like you described....



 
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Offline yari

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2019, 09:41:11 PM »
my bad. I meant BURRIS bases and rings, not bushnell. an obvious brain fart that comes w/ age ##$%#15

he has a .300 win mag. he used Loctite on both I believe. I told him to only use on the bases, but he was all in and frustrated

I used warne rings and bases on my .300 win mag. I thought they were fairly easy to install, but don't have a real good reference. it was the first scope I mounted @--0--0105. I did have one screw strip and warne promptly sent a replacement set. took some time, but went well
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Offline Flintlock1776

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2019, 09:03:42 AM »
My first scope was a Simmons Fixed 4 power on my Marlin 30.30

Next was Leupold 3-9x50mm on my Rem 700SS. It would be the same set up I use if I ever get to rifle hunt deer again

I do not have much in variety in rifle scopes but I have gone through tons of binoculars over the years.

You buy to get into using it for hunting,  then they break/leak, onto the next best thing. By the time I got patient enough to save up for a good pair of Swarvoski CL and a SLC I am at that point in my life where I am too old to think about the next best thing. I would say to a young one getting into hunting, get your inexpensive 1st bino and bi-pass getting others but save like heck to buy a really top brand bino (Swaro, Leica, etc.) that will really stand the test of time IMHO
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2019, 01:17:41 PM »
Flint - I currently have 17 pairs of binoculars, I do have some very expensive binos as well as some very cheap binos, good for the money.....from Swarovski EL to the cheapest Redfeild and Bushnell for around $100 to $120....all are very good for the money...Same goes with scopes, still have most of the Leupolds, the only ones I have every sold were two FX models. Had 43 Leupold Scopes, now have only 41. Have many others brands, from Nikon to Swarovski, to Zeiss, Leica, Trijicon, Meopta, Kahles, Vortex, Tract, Sig-Sauer, Sightron, Bushnell Elite, Tasco WCP to Simmons....and a few others that I have forgotten about....think I could learn a lot from you and your knowledge about your binos....

Have learned that rings and bases are just as important as the scopes are...that is why these days and for the last 20 years, I preferred the steel Picatinny bases (over aluminum T6061 or T7075), but the rings I could go with Steel or Aluminum, Have studied the coefficient of Temperature expansion or contraction of Aluminum versus Steel is negligible at best for us hunters, for the military, go to ask Dutch, they may see it differently...the coefficient is about the same except when you get to minus 200 degree F...then and only then would I stick with steel, it seems like the cold affects then molecular structure of the Aluminum more so than steel, but that is at -200 F !!! I don't think I would be out there if it were that cold....

Torque Values of the rifle stock to the receivers is 55 to 60 inch pounds (front screw and 50 to 55 inch pounds for the back screw). The base (picatinny rail) to the receiver is     
at 30 to 40 inch pounds and the scope rings that the scope sets in is 25 inch pounds, Vortex issued a statement just last year to limit the torque to 18 inch pounds. I never, never use Locktite on my scope rings, only on the scope base to the receiver. Warne has a 25 inch pound 15 Torx wrench that breaks at 25 inch pounds, that is what I use on the third day of mounting my scope....sure you can mount your scope in an hour and I use to do that back in the 70's and early 80's but I did learn very quickly that you need time and space to mount the scope properly...It took me about a week to 10 days to mount the scopes on the 3 rifles this year. They are the Savage-Shilen Rem 260, the Christensen Arms Ridegline 6.5 PRC and the 7mm STW custom.....have taken two of the three to the range....and they are very accurate.....will be taking the 7mm STW custom next week.....

Yari - Have been thinking about the Cooper/Swarovski combo a bit, he probably did not true up the rings when he mounted and/or he did not use Locktite and/or use a torque wrench.....hopefully he did use all three and there is a miss some where along the line, if this fails I would send it back to Cooper and tell Cooper to send me another rifle of change out receivers or something...just sounds like it is something minor that is causing the screws to loosen up....Please keep us posted on this, because I have 9 Coopers, 5 new and 4 used, and never had a minute of problem with them...



 
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2019, 01:41:02 PM »
Yari - what do I think of Burris Rings, bases and scopes....my history with Burris goes back about 30 years. I did not like their customer service, when they were based in Greely Co. They would always talk down to anyone who called in, got this from a few others with Burris Scopes. today have two Fullfield and Fullfield II scopes. Have a spotting scope of theirs as well....their old customer support is why I did not buy a Eliminator or the Eliminator II....it is a great idea but...Leupold and Nikon and Vortex alway had real friendly customer service and they do listen to you and they give you options....

Today since ATK purchase them (ATK is a big Military Contractor who bought all 11 Lehman Brothers companies just for Federal Ammo production, since Remington and Winchester and Hornady was producing most of the 5.56mm Military rounds for the Armed Forces, ATK bought all 11 companies and then began to sell them off one by one, until someone finally convinced ATK that this was a multi-billion dollar business and they needed to stay in it. One of the companies ATK bought was Savage and they already owned Burris, RCBS, Weaver, Bushnell, Otis and a few others, they did however sell off Bushnell but bought them back again. Wish I could been a fly on the wall during those discussions...I bet they were intense and very loud.....
 
ATK's outdoor products division brands included: Federal Premium Ammunition, Bushnell, Savage Arms, BLACKHAWK!, Primos, Final Approach, Uncle Mike's, Hoppe's, RCBS, Alliant Powder, CCI, Speer, Champion Targets, Gold Tip Arrows, Weaver Optics, Outers, Bolle, Cebe, and Serengeti. As of 2013, ATK’s sporting business accounted for nearly 45 percent of the company’s revenue. So as you can see this is no small conglomerate!!

But today I do like Burris Extreme Rings and their Picatinny Bases....They have an excellent Customer Support staff now and I think a 100% turnover in the department got people thinking in the right direction.....

   
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Offline Flintlock1776

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2019, 03:21:42 PM »
I will see what I have mounted on my Mossberg UltiMag 835, Hi-Point 9mm. I also have a Vortex Strikefire, still in its box.

I like the Red Dot Bushnell on my Mossberg

On binos, I have gone through the cheapo brands, the mid range Nikon, Vortex etc. I tried Zeiss but my eyeballs told me the Swaro were the winners. Took time and money to figure that out.

The cheapos broke and were tossed out. The mid range Nikon, Vortex etc. I gave to my sons.

Even though Zeiss had good reviews my eyes could not get used to them.

I don’t rifle hunt enough anymore to think of swapping out my Leupold. With my age and limited rifle hunting opportunities, if I ever did want a new scope I may just stick to a newer Leupold. Maybe Leupold® VX-R Riflescopes with the red dot

On the Swaro bino I have the CL 8x30 Companion and the SLC 8x42

The Companion is smaller, lighter and not obtrusive with using my compound bow. It cost a lot less than the SLC. Good a hunting but niceer for ballgames, concerts, cruise trips etc. The SLC is more serious for hunters.

I got the SLC for a better Field of View. I also got both in 8 power as larger really shrinks field of view and since I hunt east in thick cover I did not need higher power that folks out west may need for  their open terrains.

They are both fixed power,  so if you want to zoom in and out, these binos are not for you. Nice to pull them up and get a good picture of what may be lurking on its way towards your stand, in the heavy early fall deer and their movement really pop out. Color is awesome.

I tried the EL but they weighed a ton in comparison to my SLC.

There is a difference in Swaro’s for hunting vs. birding bino. I read a ton of stuff, did the eyeball and opted not to go EL

Each Swaro has awesome low light performance. Makes a difference when hunting!

I do have a Leupold muzzleloader scope I got about 15-20 years back.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 03:25:46 PM by Flintlock1776 »
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2019, 07:37:26 PM »
Flint - Thanks for the info your optics....I use to have a Mossberg and with the saddle mount put a Trijicon Red dot on it and it help up very good for many years. This guy at the range had a Vortex StrikeFire mounted on his AR15. He told me that it is great on game but not so good on targets...it was illuminated with either red of green and he really like it....he uses it on his farm for coyotes and bobcats....so it go me thinking about it...I have been looking at them on line and at a couple of retail shops in town here.....

My Swaro EL weight in at 22 ounces (I put them on the bathroom scales and checked - 1 lb and 6 oz) is all.....check your weight. My EL's are 10x32mm they are their standard binocular and have had them about 10 years now. The EL's are my reference, the others are the Vortex Vipers 8x42, The Steiner Peregrines 8x42, and the Leupold Gold Ring 10x42, Tract Torq 8x42mm. All of them are excellent binoculars. The Canon IS 10x30mm are very good, they have excellent glass and were third on my blind test I did at the range....also the smaller binos are the Zeiss Terra 10x32 and the Leupold BX4 are both top notch and both were about $400 each and I got them for $200 each...the others that cost around $200 each pair you put a hat over all of them, all are good values for the money, but they might not hold up like the more expensive ones should do.....

Have been eyeing the CL for a few years now, there is one guy in our hunt club (Metalman) that has a pair of them, he loves them...it is now his everyday binoculars....if you say they are good, they are.....

Thanks for the info...it will help someone out there.....

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Offline Flintlock1776

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2019, 09:28:12 AM »
A bit of Swarvoski history done almost a decade back but interesting (note, it is a huge PDF)

https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/documenten/pdf/HISTORY-AND-QUALITY-DEVELOPMENT-OF-SWAROVSKI-OPTIK-1935-TO-THE%20PRESENT-TIME.pdf

 ##$%#1118
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2019, 07:15:33 AM »
Yari - Attached is a couple of pictures of a Leupold Steel Base and Rings from the early 70's. This is a one piece steel base (3 screws) and a set of Leupold Rings along with a 2-7X x 33mm, 1 inch tube Leupold scope. It is mounted on a Winchester Model 70A in 270 Win from the very early 70's (1971 or 72?) Was there Locktite available, I don't know and did not use it (never used Locktite until the 80's when I first discovered, it had been around since 1956....wow...you live and learn....

The Leupold one piece base and rings were installed way back then, wow that is over 47 years ago that I mounted it, I remember Dad and I went hunting on Christmas morning 1971 (that is when GA Hunting Regs were expanding their dates, but wasn't sure to open the remainder of the season on Christmas Day or the day after, now we know that they settled in on the day after Christmas to open up the week extension season and it ran through and included Jan 1st.....and heard a deer walking right down the creek and looked around and could see it legs, it was foggy and it was still very early....the deer must have stood there at least 10 minutes, he knew something was up, there was no scent control back then or real good insulation clothing, after 10 minutes or so, he turned and walked out of my life. I tried to gather some light by bringing the rifle up to the sky to try and get a good fix on the sights, but by then the deer had turn around and walk, he as probably 20 yards from me, he I was at 22 year old, up in a tree. So when I got back home I decided to mount a scope and had to save the money for it, a whopping $80 for the scope and another $15 for the base and rings....I did not use Locktite on the threads, did not know stuff like that existed, so I am sure I took the rifle to the Dekalb Firing Range in Lithonia, GA. range and got it sighted in.....these older pictures were taken during the 73 hunting season and had to get developed at Kodak in March of 74......

So there is nothing wrong with old steel mounts and rings at all...I have many rifles that are in the same era, that is all we had to choose from was the one piece and two pieces Leupold bases and had more variety of rings, not much more but did have some....
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Offline yari

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2019, 09:29:26 AM »
i still have one piece steel bases on some older guns. they never move
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Offline Split toe

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2019, 11:32:40 AM »
I to have always had great luck with Leupold rings and mounts. They stay rock solid.

Bo great picture of your Dad!!!
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Offline Flintlock1776

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Re: Price of Optics
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2019, 08:32:11 PM »
Whatever the gunsmith put in works fir me. My Rem700SS with my Leupold 3x9x50mm has been rock solid. Other scope if various types also good to go. That is why I went to the gunsmith. I even have him do a strip down, clean and fire-lap my Rem700SS
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