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Author Topic: Reloading Head Scratchin'  (Read 292 times)

Offline Dutch-Hunter

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Reloading Head Scratchin'
« on: June 18, 2018, 07:06:12 PM »
Been slavin' away loading ammo for the soon to be here trip to Wy. Did manage to reward myself with a "therapy" trip a couple of weeks ago. Found a new to me Browning A-Bolt M1000 Eclipse 22-250, 1:13.75 Twist

Chamber and projectile measurements as follows:

Chamber; Case Base To Ogive (CBTO) dimension 2.058.

Projectile; diameter held +/- .0001 of .224, bearing surface from ogive to boattail is .3785 +/- .0004, weight variance of .0015 grains.

While working up loads for this future whistle pig puncher I found something unusual that I’ve never had happen before. I’ve attached a PDF of the ladder tests I ran and the targets at 200 yards. The third target is the finished product at 500 yards after the fouling and zeroing shots. I listed the conditions of the final target in the PDF.

 --09--0

The velocity ladder test ran pretty much as normal with the points of impact walking up the paper (hence the term “ladder test”). This test was ran with a .20 increase of powder charge weight between cartridges all set in length to be jammed into lands. I halted the test with the flyer of shot #11. As you can see in target #1 shots 5, 6 & 7 grouped the best. This makes my optimum muzzle velocity between 4155 and 4193 fps. I used the charge weight for shot #6 plus .04 grains. “Armed” (  @--0--0121 forgive me) with this knowledge I then loaded cartridges with an increasing jump space of .005 starting with the 2.058 CBTO dimension. This made shot #1 jammed into lands, shot #2 dimension was 2.053, shot#3 was 2.048, shot #4 was 2.043 and so on until #I2 that had a dimension of 1.998 . Which means cartridge #12 was set .060 off lands (jump space).

Next “ladder” test is jump space. Here’s where it began to get interesting or a little weird, depending on your frame of mind. Not as I would have predicted at all.   --7-8-9 This “ladder” tipped over! The walking went horizontally from right to left until shot #8 which stepped back to the right. Then shot #9 went up and right about ¾ of a inch! Then shots 10-12 all grouped tight and from left to right horizontally on the same plane as #9. Did me some serious head scratchin’ and beard tuggin’. I then came to the conclusion of IDK???  @--0--0117

I cleaned the gun and contemplated the situation for a few days.  ##$%#112 Coming to no enlightening conclusion, I decided to load up 10 rounds with the same powder charge and set with a CBTO of 2.003 and zero them at 249 yards (point blank range). During my deepest points of tribulation and trepidation I ran the ballistics table (trajectory chart) for the velocity at ranges. “Armed” (forgive me again  @--0--0102 ) with this data I could adjust the optics for distance shooting once zeroed in. Took it to the range and vised it down. Let four fowlers fly to get it on paper. Let the gun cool down while I hung paper at PBR and 500 yards. First shot low ½ and left 2 ¼ left, adjusted elevation and windage. Second shot POI even horizontally and left ½, adjusted windage. Third shot dead on! Adjusted elevation to come up for 500 yards and turned five shots loose. Refer to target # 3.  @--0--0123

Back to my quandary… guess it don’t much matter, hard to argue with the results. But I still am puzzled!
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Offline Madgomer

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Re: Reloading Head Scratchin'
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 07:36:41 PM »
Good info Dutch - I got nothin' for you unfortunately.  Any possibility of a chamber vs. bore concentricity issue flipping that thing sideways like that?
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Offline gobihawk

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Re: Reloading Head Scratchin'
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 08:15:11 PM »
I had same type of thing on 87 grain Berger bullet with 243. I figured it was a temporary barometer pressure change. Just a guess. Like you I selected best load and had great results.
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Reloading Head Scratchin'
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2018, 05:18:57 AM »
Dutch - First of all, nice shooting as always...you still have it....you can out shoot me that for sure!!! I am headed to the range this Thursday and results will follow this Friday....and only shoot out to 200 yards....LOL....

That is strange that you encounter that...Wow...yes it would be to me too!! I would expect the opposite results...well almost....I would lose some sleep over this....but then I don't sleep anyway these days.....

I have some rifles that you need a lot of jump to make the accurate. This doesn't necessarily mean the barrel is shot out or anything close to that...but I can see why you could scratch your head.....
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Offline Two Tales

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Re: Reloading Head Scratchin'
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2018, 09:48:12 PM »
 @--0--0117 @--0--0117 @--0--0117

bolt lugs dirty or hard carbon deposit on the crown?

TT @--0--0107
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Reloading Head Scratchin'
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2018, 05:03:55 AM »
Two tales - That was my first thought that it was something small. I wonder about some small step in the reloading process or cleaning process, just some small and insignificant that he is not doing, the weather being spring time and the air is very unstable during this time of the year. But Dutch being Dutch, that is why I did not asked the question....

At 500 yards everything is magnified and I mean everything...1 MOA at 600 yards for me is a good day at the range!!! But again Dutch being Dutch, its got to go through the same hole at 1000 yards or there is a problem somewhere......with Dutch's training and his natural God gifted ability...he will figure it out and let us all know.....

   
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Offline Dutch-Hunter

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Re: Reloading Head Scratchin'
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2018, 05:05:25 PM »
I’ve been scratcnin’ my head and now have scabs under my cap and blood stained eyebrows. Started going back through my notes and firing data. Before I get into all that, here’s the history of this gun. Purchased the gun used although very slightly used. So doing what Bo and I both do first intriduced it to the gun room and stripped it bare to examine, clean, lube and reassemble.

I scoped the bore and would estimate it had less than 50 rounds through it. The lands are all nice and sharp even in the throat. Found nothing that jumped out as a problem. There was a small bit of copper build up but the bore was surprisingly clean and smooth for a factory barrel. I scrubbed out the copper and did a quick Scotch Pad lapping to shine up the bore and soften land edges. I’ve found smooth shiny bore and soft edges facilitate a few more feet per second in velocity and quicker cleaning.

I did adjust the factory trigger down as far as it would go to 2.50 pounds. This is way heavier than I prefer but no time to change it out before it has to go to work in Wyoming. This factor alone is the reason for the dispersion at 500 yards. I’m just not used to a heavy pull weight. Remember I like mine in the neighborhood of ¾’s of an ounce.

I fire-formed 50 new Norma cases to start the loading process. After fire-forming I turned the neck to .015 that gave me a uniform .254 after seating bullet. Neck sized only and trim length to 1.8845 which gives me .0975 of flow to throat. After loading my bullet run out was held to .0001 or less. I do love that Bonanza press. The powder I'm using is Varget. As I stated before the pills are Hornady 50gr V-Max.

I’m confident that the jump space ladder test results were not caused by anything physical in the gun. I cleaned and 3 shot fouled before starting each ladder test. There was sufficient cooling time between each shot while running the ladders. After completing each of the ladder tests it cleaned up one wet and three dry swabs.

A possible explanation of the horizontal nature of the jump test could be a slight variance in velocity. But then again no because the velocity changes in the first test ran vertically. Anyway I checked my notes and the velocity variant across the board for the 13 shots in this test was only 23 fps. I was expecting a bit more but it is what it is.

I think I just solved the mystery, be back in a few….

Eureka!!! Now my forehead hurts from the smack I gave myself. I checked my shooting vise. The rear hold down bolt was not properly torqued; it wasn’t loose, just not torqued to my specs (75 ft lbs). I think this allowed a slight side shift with each shot.  WHEW! Now I can sleep better. Perhaps this is a good lesson; “it’s all in the set up” even bench set up. So now I’ll load up a couple hundred rounds with the recipe it seems to like.

BTW... The 5 shot group at 500 was off bipods with rear bag and my left fist for stability. I think between the stiff trigger pull and a slight change in wind speed is why my POI wasn't what I had hoped. Perhaps it was the extra cup of coffee. Perhaps it was just not my day. Still satisfied and should be able to deliver nap time to a few prairie pups.
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Offline dave 1211

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Re: Reloading Head Scratchin'
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2018, 06:12:47 PM »
 ##$%#13   ##$%#15  glad I could help you fix it    @--0--0102    ##$%#1118
turkey season was a wet one now on to deer hunting in October





dave 1211

Offline Madgomer

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Re: Reloading Head Scratchin'
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2018, 07:19:35 PM »
There ya have it folks, another mystery put to rest.  Thanks for sharing Dutch - I'll probably never get anywhere close to your level but really appreciate your willingness to educate the rest of us.
One of God's greatest gifts to us is
the great outdoors - get out there
and enjoy it!

 

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