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Author Topic: Planning to build or buy  (Read 607 times)

Offline Dutch-Hunter

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Planning to build or buy
« on: October 18, 2017, 07:47:35 AM »
Dutch's thought process:  ##$%#12

I know some reactions to this may be  ##$%#1119 or  ??? , but bear with me and I'll try to make this easy to understand.

I just started to compile data for a new rifle build. I want to build a multi-use rifle. I thought some would like to hear my thought process in this.

The gun I'm designing can be used on prairie dogs to elk. With this in mind kinetic energy is one of the leading decision factors. Kinetic energy is not as important for P-dogs as it is for elk. Another factor is gun carry-ability. As you all know a heavy gun makes for a long day of hunting if you must tote it for any length of time.

First and foremost in the selection is the bullet. I have decided to go with Nosler AccuBonds. I personally like their penetration and terminal performance. In addition they have very good ballistic traits.

Next is diameter selection. My first inclination was .264, but after looking at the kinetic energy for elk I decided to move up to the .270. In this diameter AccuBonds are available in 100, 130, 140 and 150(Long Range) grain bullet weights.

Now the chamber options; I know everyone has their own opinion and favorite. I would like to look at the 270WSM. I went to Nosler’s load data website and compiled an on paper comparison. I entered this data in an EXCEL spreadsheet. I’ve attached a PDF copy of this below. (More of Dutch’s “thrown” reading material.)  The data used was the minimum and maximum powder loads for each weight using H4831SC powder. Velocity and Energy generated by powder charge. With this information I used a ballistic program to come up with yardage values and the trajectory deviations for each. In the attached table you’ll find the percentage of energy drop for each bullet weight. Nosler’s data for the 100 grain was generated using a 26” barrel with 1:10 twist. The heavier bullets were all tested with a 24” barrel with the same twist rate.

The yardage in this table is to 400 yards. I stopped at 400 because of the ethical and physical reality of the elk hunt. You’ll also notice in the table even at 400 yards the 100 grain bullets would have enough energy to knock down an elk. I don’t believe it’s ethical.

As I said earlier all of this is for planning. Once the actual rifle is built the hands on testing begins. Incremental load testing for each bullet weight. This will tell me the optimal velocity for each bullet weight. The point blank range for each weight will determine the zero range.

I wanted to share this because even a new or new to you rifle purchase needs consideration.

My next step is to evaluate the components, barrel, action, etc. I'll keep you all in the loop as this project moves on.
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Offline dave 1211

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Re: Planning to build or buy
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 08:10:33 AM »
  ##$%#1119   thanks now you got me thinking    ##$%#1118
turkey season is 1 month away





dave 1211

Offline MI_Bowhunter

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Re: Planning to build or buy
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 09:22:57 AM »
Looks like you've been doing some homework.

Sure beats my "oooohhhhh shiny!" approach to gun buying.    --099-780

I've never really got into the magnums or short magnums but the energy and trajectory of what you have posted is pretty impressive. 
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Planning to build or buy
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 10:36:33 AM »
Dutch - You and I are thinking the same way....I think you are right on the money buy saying 400 yards using the AB or LAB round as your reference....I feel like the 264 round is good for up to mule deer and caribou size game but not elk...I feel like a 270 or 270WSM or even the 270 Wea Mag is good medicine for big tough Elk...you chart is right on the money but would like to see you sight in the 270WSM rifle at 200 yards...why 100 yards?? I have all my mags sighted in for 200 and 300 yards...and both my 270WSM have 26 inch barrels.....will a 10 twist be good enough for the 100 gn AB??

I have downloaded the pdf file and have briefly looked at it....I have my own chart but never did go down to 100 gn pill...wow, a yote slapper for sure!! I am sure we will talk a bunch before it is finally finished...thanks for the heads up....

It's hunting season now, so I next week I will disappear for the next few weeks....LOL....but do plan on taking my 270WSM McWhorter down with me and use it for my long range...also taking the Cooper 280 Rem and 6.5 CM in a Savage for Med range and the Colt-Cooper 308, and the Remington 308 LTR for my short range and rainy weather rifles.....and maybe the Steyr 7mm-08 and the Cooper M22 in 7x57......I know, I going to need a bigger truck!!! LOL....

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Offline BLUETOE

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Re: Planning to build or buy
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 11:21:32 AM »
Well Dutch that looks like it will work the numbers are impressive and I like your choice of bullet the Accubonds are very accurate and they kill! I use them in my .300 WSM. So using them in the .270 WSM is right on especially for Elk. keep us posted on the progress.
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Offline Dutch-Hunter

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Re: Planning to build or buy
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 06:43:22 PM »
  ##$%#1119   thanks now you got me thinking    ##$%#1118

Now wait a dern minute! Don't you go blamin' me because you finally started thinkin'.  @--0--0105


Looks like you've been doing some homework.

Unless I have a impulse therapy session I normally evaluate a build or planned purchase this way.

Dutch - You and I are thinking the same way....I think you are right on the money buy saying 400 yards using the AB or LAB round as your reference....I feel like the 264 round is good for up to mule deer and caribou size game but not elk...I feel like a 270 or 270WSM or even the 270 Wea Mag is good medicine for big tough Elk...you chart is right on the money but would like to see you sight in the 270WSM rifle at 200 yards...why 100 yards??

Bo... I was just using book values for sake of comparison. I'll more than likely have a 1.75 to 2 inch site line. I'll see what the point blank range is and zero accordingly. You're right the 1:10 twist may not be right for the 100gr pill. But a P-dog won't know the difference if it gets slapped with a 140 or 150.

While combining soybeans today I was contemplating this project. After beans are done I'll get down to some serious planning. First thoughts on an action are Styller or Surgeon. I've had good luck with both. Barrels I'm really undecided... Lilja, Bartlien, PacNor??? Still thinking.
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Planning to build or buy
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 07:06:53 PM »
OK - Just wondering...thanks for the info.....now I understand.....

Sort of been out of pocket lately...the Camper and Irma saga is just about over but it did take up a lot of my focus.....sorry....
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Planning to build or buy
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2017, 10:28:19 PM »
Dutch - One of the favorite loads for a couple of my 270WSM is the 140 gn Berger VLD (27502), using RL-19 or H4831SC, have been getting some good groups.....the 270 Custom has a Stiller Action (their Predator model), 26" Krieger Barrel w/brake, 10 twist, with Jewel trigger...it does like the 140 gn pills...the load I have worked on for a couple of years now has been that 140 gn VLD and it good pretty good groups at 200 yards...generally under an inch....

 
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Offline Madgomer

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Re: Planning to build or buy
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 11:44:10 AM »
Keep us posted Dutch, you got my curiosity up now.  A .270 seems a little brutal to me for an extended day of ventilating prairie dogs, but obviously anything that's mild won't be a consideration for elk - eager to get an education as you go through this.
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Offline BoBallistic

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Re: Planning to build or buy
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 03:25:45 PM »
Mad - I bought my 270WSM used for half price, Tim told me it was a demo rifle, but it came with a muzzle brake and can shoot it all day long with out any shoulder issues...cannot say that about the Savage 12FVSS with its 26" barrel and no brake!! Ouch!!
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Offline Dutch-Hunter

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Re: Planning to build or buy
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 06:46:25 PM »
Mad, yup anything bigger than a 22 or 24 bore is a bit overkill (pun intended) for whistle pigs. The splatter effect of bigger bores makes it more challenging to find the tails for the rancher to collect bounty. But the yotes that come in to clean up a sundown never see the slap comin'. The last time I went tippin', we used our long range 338's. Couldn't even fine a patch of pig fuzz bigger than a dime. 300 grain bullet at 3800fps vs 35000 grain p-dog at 600 yards = pink cloud. Great fun though.

My 270WSM Savage Classic Model 14 with 24" barrel is not to stout on the shoulder. But Bo's right to much can get a bit OUCHIE! This gun likes 130gr A-Bons at 3195. It'll hold mickey-mouse head(touching holes) groups at 300. This cartridge does like to heat the barrel fast so one must pace themselves. A single round will raise receiver temp 90 degrees over ambient with one round fired.

When Bo mentioned the Weatherby Magnum 270 I had considered it but it's a bit harder on the shoulder. Particularly when I intend to shoot elk off hand, so the lighter I can get it the better. I'm still looking at an all in weight (rifle & optics) around 9 1/2 - 10 1/4 pounds. The WSM has an recoil energy of 18.7 whereas the WBY has a 21.2 for 130 grain pill. That extra 2 1/2 - 3 pounds of shoulder pounding adds up. Plus the WBY takes a bit more powder and the brass costs more.

As you can guess I've been thinking and crunching numbers for a while. You can't ever tell what goes on between these Dutch ears.
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Offline dave 1211

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Re: Planning to build or buy
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 08:20:52 PM »
 --099-780 1 + 1 = 456789     @--0--0102  I have seen your math
turkey season is 1 month away





dave 1211

 

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