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Author Topic: New Bow - Set up advice needed  (Read 879 times)

Offline Jaeger

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New Bow - Set up advice needed
« on: August 22, 2016, 06:43:21 AM »
Hey guys,

Well tomorrow I am going down to the local shop to buy a PSE Stinger X Ready to Shoot bow.  I need to know what to pay attention to as the shop guy sets it up for me.

Now please do not tell me to go to other shops, buy used, buy on line, or otherwise try to change and complicate my decision. I truly do appreciate all your advice in my other thread "opening a can of worms", but decided I'm too new to this to have small details effect me shooting at this point.

I am buying this bow and at this shop because I am a, for all intents and purposes, a newbie to compounds not having shot one since the 80's and I am very loyal to this shop.  They do all my transfers, order what ever I want and are basically very good to me.  (I tried rehabbing the 'ole ram hunter, but I'm convinced the limbs are shot, recovering at different rates).

The other shop in town is awful, bad attitude, etc. and even had a third shop shut down by calling the ATF for things they themselves do in secret (but that's another whopper of a story).

So, I am buying the PSE Stinger, what do I pay attention to in set up and in what order?

Draw length and weight?  

I have a very short draw, 25" on longbow, 26" on recurves and probably similar on this compound.  But will using a release effectively shorten the LOP?  With a 7 1/2" brace height  and short draw, I am a little worried about "flipping" the arrows.

Should I have the draw weight set at a lower or higher end?

I shoot 42 and 45 lb longbows with ease and a 60 lb recurve with some difficulty.  Thinking 50-55 lbs but this thing can go up to over 70lbs.

Sights and rest (comes with gemini sight, a wisker biscuit rest and a peep wheel).  What to look at here ?

As for arrows, I have some carbons that were purchased and cut to match my draw length and 50 lb ram hunter and I figure I can tweak those with head weight changes (works with carbons on stick bows).  I really do not have the money this season to get new arrows.

So, if you were me going in to purchase a specific bow, what would you look for and how would you assist the shop guy in getting it set up for you correctly?



Thanks guys and gals,

Jaeger
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Offline Jaeger

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2016, 06:46:54 AM »
Also, other than arrows, it comes with a stabilizer and quiver.  What else should I get?  A wrist strap?

Wondering if the cost of the arm brace Huntmaster recommends would be good at this point or should I try to learn to shoot correctly first?  As I said above, limited on funds.

Thanks,
J
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Offline Hunt Master

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2016, 09:26:04 AM »
A.  Let the bow shop measure you and determine your draw length. Using a release only adds 1/2" with the D loop so they will best know how to set you up for that. With a compound, release point consistency is everything. Let them set the draw length and adjust the release so it feels comfortable and will be easy to find the same release point each time.
B.  Nothing wrong with the PSE... enjoy
C.  Draw weight is usually set in increments of 10 lbs. It sounds like 50 - 60 lb limbs would work for you. That is what I shoot. more than enough poundage to kill deer at 40 yards or better
D.  Arrows are best chosen by the spine that best matches your bow speed. As long as the arrows you have are long enough, you can make them work but might replace them next year. To me, arrows are like bullets. Why buy a nice gun and then shoot the wrong bullet?
E.  Don't worry about the steady form yet. Get comfortable with the bow first. Besides, I'm about to spend that money for you somewhere else.
F.  Most of these bows come with an inexpensive rest. Get a QAD Ultrarest (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) or some other form of quality drop away rest. Yes, you can hunt with a whisker biscuit but the drop aways will greatly tighten up your groups and lower your frustration level. Pricey but worth every penny.
G.  Pay attention to which release you buy. Make sure its something easy to use. Don't get talked into something super fancy while learning. Simple is better.
H.  For now, don't fret over quiver types or even sights right now. Starting out, you wont know what you like best and will just buy something different down the road anyway, wasting any money spent today.
I.  Wrist straps. Ill probably get an argument here from others but I took mine off. It was harder to get a gloved hand into it while hunting and to me, it didn't help me much. I shoot with my bow hand open, let the bow fall forward when I release and still have never dropped my bow.
J.  Stabilizer. it does help but don't spend much there or get fancy.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 09:32:16 AM by Hunt Master »
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Offline Hunt Master

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2016, 09:41:17 AM »
Because you have long bow and recurve experience, you aren't a complete newbie. You already know that form and practice are king. When my wife started shooting, she was getting frustrated trying to do perfect form along with the other 10 things you have to think of when drawing, aiming and releasing. I told her, perfect form isn't important, consistency is. If you can hold the bow the same way, aim the same way and release the same way, every time, you can dial it in.

Don't over practice. you typically hold full draw longer with a compound and that makes you tired and shaky. When you get tired, stop. Tired shooters build bad habits.

Don't try to get a bunch of pins sighted in right away. Start with a 20 yard pin and get that one set. Then practice that one pin and distance until you feel really good about it. take it slow and keep in simple.
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Offline Deerhead

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2016, 10:23:31 AM »
HM gave you great advise!  especially about the drop away rest!  There is only one more item I will add.
1. Arrows!  I always buy the best arrows I can afford.  I like "Pro" labeled arrows.  They have the highest tolerance (Straightness).  The better the equipment the better the results. 

Congrats on the new bow!

Enjoy and good luck
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Offline MI_Bowhunter

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2016, 01:17:07 PM »
Whatever the shop does, make sure they tune the bow to YOU.  They can set it up but make sure they make final adjustments based on you shooting the bow as there are a lot of physical factors that you will impart that may be different than anyone else in terms of grip, form, etc.

I am an anomaly as I have never been able to get my drop away set correctly.  Personally I think they are overrated but YMMV   @--0--0117

A $300 sight does not make you a better shooter than a $30 sight. If you do not develop good form, all the micro adjustment in the world will not tighten up your groups.  When hunting I tend to only set one pin, it negates the possibility of using the wrong pin.   ;D

Stabilizers....Unless you need the weight out front to help balance the bow, i never really saw the need for them outside of the target shooting world.

Don't fall for marketing hype, if they try to sell you something ask why and how it will really help you.   A GOOD bow shop will give you honest answers and let you try something before you buy it.

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Offline Hunt Master

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2016, 01:41:48 PM »
Note on drop aways... I have tried 3. 2 of them had to be adjusted and they sucked. Wont name them. QAD worked differently and worked well. But they are pricey. Like MI said, form and practice is everything and yes, any kind of rest will work. When I moved to the QAD, it was after I had already become proficient with my bow and my groups tightened way up at the 30 and 40 yard marks.

Like MI said, let them fine tune it for you, while you are there, and while you are shooting it. Don't let them rush you out the door....
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Offline yari

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2016, 06:41:04 PM »
wow, the gang covered it pretty well. I would go when the shop is dead. you want to get their undivided attention. I actually called and set up a time before they opened. nobody else was around and it worked great

good luck
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Offline Jaeger

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2016, 05:06:54 AM »
A.  Let the bow shop measure you and determine your draw length. Using a release only adds 1/2" with the D loop so they will best know how to set you up for that. With a compound, release point consistency is everything. Let them set the draw length and adjust the release so it feels comfortable and will be easy to find the same release point each time.
B.  Nothing wrong with the PSE... enjoy
C.  Draw weight is usually set in increments of 10 lbs. It sounds like 50 - 60 lb limbs would work for you. That is what I shoot. more than enough poundage to kill deer at 40 yards or better
D.  Arrows are best chosen by the spine that best matches your bow speed. As long as the arrows you have are long enough, you can make them work but might replace them next year. To me, arrows are like bullets. Why buy a nice gun and then shoot the wrong bullet?
E.  Don't worry about the steady form yet. Get comfortable with the bow first. Besides, I'm about to spend that money for you somewhere else.
F.  Most of these bows come with an inexpensive rest. Get a QAD Ultrarest (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) or some other form of quality drop away rest. Yes, you can hunt with a whisker biscuit but the drop aways will greatly tighten up your groups and lower your frustration level. Pricey but worth every penny.
G.  Pay attention to which release you buy. Make sure its something easy to use. Don't get talked into something super fancy while learning. Simple is better.
H.  For now, don't fret over quiver types or even sights right now. Starting out, you wont know what you like best and will just buy something different down the road anyway, wasting any money spent today.
I.  Wrist straps. Ill probably get an argument here from others but I took mine off. It was harder to get a gloved hand into it while hunting and to me, it didn't help me much. I shoot with my bow hand open, let the bow fall forward when I release and still have never dropped my bow.
J.  Stabilizer. it does help but don't spend much there or get fancy.

First off, thanks HM very much for taking the time to lay that all out for me, it is very helpful (I'm actually printing it out and taking it with me).

I have a lot to learn about form in compound bow shooting, I'm worried about holding the bow vertically all the time.  I'm so used to canting the bow, often radically.

In longbow/recurve (instinctive) shooting, I practice form with a light bow at extreemly close range and often with eyes closed.  But in instinctive shooting, concentration is more important once basic form is set to muscle memory, just like shooting a basket ball or throwing a football.  Once the basic form is mastered shots can be taken from a variety of new positions regardless if it's a bow, basketball or football.

That, I don't think, translates well to compound shooting where, I believe, the bow must be held upright just so.  That being said, thanks HM for reminding me it's more about consistency than perfect form.


Sooo, I think my arrows will work, they are cut long enough, nock to insert, at 27" and the chart on the box says I'm ok at 27" up to about 69lbs.

I'll start with it set at 55lbs, that should be sufficient.

HM, I looked on line at the Quad Ultra-rest's and found two, a Ultra rest HDX at $139-155 and an Ultra rest "Hunter" model at $49.  Is the cheaper one or the more expensive one the one I should be looking at?

I've got two releases one swivels the other does not, but haven't used either enough to find if they are comfortable, the three fingers keep wanting to reach out and grab that darn string!!

Thanks for the information, I'll probably have the same issue with the sights, wanting to look past them to the target so I'll start with just the one pin.

Didn't get there Tuesday, had to put out some fires, hopefully today or early next week.  The real "bow guy" just got back from vacation, so he is swamped and like Yari said, I want to go when I can get his undivided attention. 

Jaeger
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 05:09:57 AM by Jaeger »
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Offline Jaeger

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2016, 05:19:25 AM »
Quick note, I looked at the Quad Ultra rests again on Midway.

Can anyone tell me what the "break away" cord on the rest is or does?  Is it important and/or something I need to worry about?
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Offline ligpd

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2016, 06:15:32 AM »
Quick note, I looked at the Quad Ultra rests again on Midway.

Can anyone tell me what the "break away" cord on the rest is or does?  Is it important and/or something I need to worry about?

I believe the "break away" cord what you are talking about is the cord that they attach to bow cable so as you draw your bow back will also raise the rest up into shooting position or you can also flip the rest up with your finger prior to drawing the bow.

As for the price between the "Hunter" and other models of the QAD is mainly because of the parts used on the "inside" and I may be wrong, but I believe the cheaper one have plastic gears as the more pricy one will have mental gears which should last longer.

Offline Madgomer

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2016, 06:19:36 AM »
Jaeger, about the only thing I might offer a different opinion on than HM or others is the rest.  I have used drop away rests, and fully agree that for practice or a 3D shoot, etc they're the way to go.  For hunting though, I love the whisker biscuit.  Please bear in mind that where I bowhunt I won't have shots over 25 yds.  The thing I like is that the arrow stays put while on the stand.  No matter the wind, or if I lay the bow on my lap, or bump the arrow as I'm getting positioned for a shot.  Just my 2 cents, fully agree with each other point stated.  By the way, there are people shooting compounds instinctively, but I think they're generally shooting mild cams, as one with a really steep valley can make the flow of an instinctive shot very ugly. PSE makes great product, no worries there. I've always been told you should buy a bow with the upper end of the draw weight close to what you want, that you lose efficiency and have vibration issues setting up a bow at the bottom end of its range.  Don't know if that is true or not.  I have a long draw length (31.5" I believe, with release) and shoot between 60-65, always end up with pass thrus.  Yes, absolutely have a swivel head and wrist strap on your release.  I don't use a bow strap.
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Offline MI_Bowhunter

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2016, 07:44:24 AM »
The cord is a key part of the rest. I attaches to the bows cables and is what actuates the rest. Drawing the bow will pull the cord, lifting the rest into position ( if you did not do it manually).  Even if you set the rest manually drawing the bow should pull on it slightly. It is the instant release of tension in this cord when you shoot that initiates the fall of the rest.

Does that make sense?
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Offline Hunt Master

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Re: New Bow - Set up advice needed
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2016, 08:48:06 AM »
The ultra rest locks in position to hold your arrow like a whisker biscuit. The $155 one is the one you need.

Definitely want the swivel release...

The cord on the ultrarest is for locking it when you draw (I manually raise and lock mine as soon as I nock an arrow) and it releases it when the bow is fired.
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