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Tools of the Trade => Archery => Topic started by: Dutch-Hunter on January 07, 2012, 03:51:02 PM

Title: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 07, 2012, 03:51:02 PM
I had an opportunity to break out the chrony to test some 30.06 loads. So I remounted the chrony on my tripod and checked my bow. I was using field points and the weights per arrow went from 549.2 - 550.4 grains. I ran each arrow (six of them) through two cycles. The fps ranged from 524 - 535. I did not document the speed vs weight of each arrow. This old Whitetail Hunter is the one that I mentioned before. It has factory set up cams and stiffer limbs from Bear. They never marketed the after market limbs and cams. The draw length is 29" at 70 lbs draw.
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 07, 2012, 04:32:54 PM
I hope to be breaking out my old timer in a couple months depending on what the doc says about the elbow.  I have a 25 year old ladies jennings with basic factory set up too.  I have to check the draw length I actualy forget what it was when I was fitted for the bow.
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 07, 2012, 07:58:36 PM
great looking bow, dutch, I never bow hunted but its past my little mind more than once ;D
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 08, 2012, 11:47:37 AM
DH,

those readings of 500+ fps seem to be a little high.  is your chronograph calibrated?

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Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 08, 2012, 04:23:16 PM
DH,

those readings of 500+ fps seem to be a little high.  is your chronograph calibrated?

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hawghunter, The chrony is dead on. My old bow has been upgraded with hi-pro cams and stiffer limbs, it is a heavy thumper. The 70 pound draw is it's lowest setting. I could get it up to 90 if I wanted to but getting too old, and my left arm even in it's brace would not hold up. I had never checked the speed before but had suspictions, I ruined many a spine. With field points I through-n-through turkies at 40 yards. When I used it a lot I was comfortable out to 60 yards on whietails. Unlike most bow hunters I try to hit spine shots. If presented at the correct angle I will take eye shots, or behind the ears. I always prefer instant drops with little or no suffering to the animal.
I'm going to try my first carbon spines, what would you recommend? I know I'm going to need fairly stiff ones but I know nothing about them.
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 08, 2012, 08:07:32 PM
DH,

i would post your request for spine weight in the archery section as i have no experience with fps at that poundage that you are experiencing with your bow.  one of the techno savvy carbon arrow archery experts can probably help you better than i can with this problem.  you must be generating some extreme kinetic energy out of that bow.

550gr arrow weight X velocity of 525fps=288,750 x 535fps again=151593750 divided by 450,240 conversion factor of grains to pounds= 336# of energy from your bow.  is my math wrong DH?

 i myself only get about 80# of kinetic energy shooting 500gr at 270 fps at 62# pull weight.

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Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 09, 2012, 11:01:10 AM
that's a ton of speed. the IBO ratings for the fastest bows today are around 330fps. i don't know if there is an arrow to handle that kind of speed? i've never heard of speed even close to that dutch
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 09, 2012, 11:06:46 AM
DH,

those readings of 500+ fps seem to be a little high.  is your chronograph calibrated?

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hawghunter, The chrony is dead on. My old bow has been upgraded with hi-pro cams and stiffer limbs, it is a heavy thumper. The 70 pound draw is it's lowest setting. I could get it up to 90 if I wanted to but getting too old, and my left arm even in it's brace would not hold up. I had never checked the speed before but had suspictions, I ruined many a spine. With field points I through-n-through turkies at 40 yards. When I used it a lot I was comfortable out to 60 yards on whietails. Unlike most bow hunters I try to hit spine shots. If presented at the correct angle I will take eye shots, or behind the ears. I always prefer instant drops with little or no suffering to the animal.
I'm going to try my first carbon spines, what would you recommend? I know I'm going to need fairly stiff ones but I know nothing about them.

D-H,

I don't recommend any carbon spines if your bow is slinging an alumy that fast!!!!!
That's a little on the dangerous side, but if you must, I would look at any arrow with and aluminum alloy...
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 09, 2012, 01:31:42 PM
that's a ton of speed. the IBO ratings for the fastest bows today are around 330fps. i don't know if there is an arrow to handle that kind of speed? i've never heard of speed even close to that dutch

Me neither.  Even the top bow manufacturers don't advertise anything near 400 fps and I have never found a bow that shoots what they claim.  I shoot a Mathews Reezon maxed out at 73 pounds with a 28" draw and I can only get 315 and my buddy shoots the same bow maxed out (not sure of exact weight but 70+) with a 29" draw and he can get 325. If you are shooting 500+ I would be afraid that any type of arrow would explode as they are not made to handle those numbers.  I would also think your sight pins would be touching each other.   The faster your bow shoots the less fall and therefore the measurement between pins is reduced.  The difference between my pins is  1/8" at most and just over a 1/2" from 20 yds to 60 yds, it looks like your pins are spread apart even more unless your pins are on 20-30 yd intervals.  I don't mean to disagree or question your numbers but you might double check your chrony otherwise that is one mean bow you have and quite rare.
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 09, 2012, 07:40:41 PM
There is a little more to the story here. The cams and pullies ahve all been retroed with needle bearings. The inherent problem with these old mulit-pulley bows was idler, cam and cable noise. I made my own angular stripper bolts to mount the pullies with accomodating for the needle bearings. The cams were supplied with needle bearings and the limb attachments. After changing the limbs and attachments I replaced the cable with one also supplied in the high-proformance kit supplied to me. I think you can all agree why this kit was never produced or marketed. I got mine as a prototype straight for Bear. I thinks I'll stay with the alummies I have and see if I can get a few more. I did not think carbons would be worth the risk. Thanks for your input and thoughts. See I not only love hot flying guns, but my arrows scream as well.

yari, you can now understand why I go for my sweet spots even when I got this in my hand. And it explains why I must now use my brace. At one point when I was able to pull it, I had turned it up to the 90# setting and could not control groups at all, just too much deflection. I dug out my broadheads just have not had the time to way them. I'll let you know.
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 10, 2012, 07:17:49 AM


now that is a vintage bow!

pretty cool pics dutch!
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 10, 2012, 08:37:55 AM
yari, you can now understand why I go for my sweet spots even when I got this in my hand. And it explains why I must now use my brace. At one point when I was able to pull it, I had turned it up to the 90# setting and could not control groups at all, just too much deflection. I dug out my broadheads just have not had the time to way them. I'll let you know.
[/quote]

i will still always go for the lung dutch. deer have such quick refexes that i want the biggest kill zone possible and the place the deer has the least movement.(lungs) especially when i get out past 20 yards. the head is just too mobile for me. they can duck an arrow in an instant. watching them on film is incredible.

you may want to check out some of the double wall arrows used for bison and water buffalo. i haven't had the need to research them, but they are supposed to be very tough. thx
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 10, 2012, 09:17:36 AM
So your saying you shoot all your deer in the spine, eye, or behind the ear?

How often do you miss?    I believe I will stick with the heart lungs liver shot where if I slip just a little I still get one of the big three..... I have seen too many pictures of deer with arrows sticking out of their noses and backs and are still alive to even think about those marginal shots... but if your comfortable with them then that's your cup of tea
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 10, 2012, 06:23:00 PM
So your saying you shoot all your deer in the spine, eye, or behind the ear?

How often do you miss?    I believe I will stick with the heart lungs liver shot where if I slip just a little I still get one of the big three..... I have seen too many pictures of deer with arrows sticking out of their noses and backs and are still alive to even think about those marginal shots... but if your comfortable with them then that's your cup of tea

Z, This year I went one for one and the first deer harvest with my bow in fifteen years, and I'll admit it was a lung shot, and I will not do that again.   I will say I have missed a shot but I have never missed a deer. If I am not confident in the shot I don't. I also have never lost a deer, I have recovered every one. When I do miss MY shot they never go very far with the impact I hit them with, I have never been able to reuse and arrow, they always warp break on impact. I am very self dicaplined and will not cause an animal to suffer if avoidable. This is how I was raised, we wasted nothing. Grandads loved to eat the lungs in a stew, the heart and tongue were pickled, the liver was that nights super with onions, the intestines were cleaned and used for sausage casing. The desire for good shot placement was driven home by a desire to not have my fanny tanned for waisting anything. Back when I bow hunted a lot I would pratice with the bow as much as I practice with my rifles. I could hold 1" groups at 50 yards, and was comfortable out to 60.  This year I allowed myself to put groups of 3" at 40 yards, since I'm relearning. If I was not able to do this the bow was going back in it's case untill spring. 
Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 10, 2012, 07:45:11 PM
DH,

here is a link to the broad heads i use as i like to sharpen them myself as a bit of a traditionalist in that aspect.  these heads are extremely tough and can be reused usually.   i use the glue-on 150gr interceptor as i like the long almost 3:1 ratio.  best bone penetration DH i got with this combination was breaking a rib going in on a big doe and penetrating through the opposite side front shoulder skin at 68# with 28 inch draw, matthews classic compound bow, 500+grain total arrow and broad head weight. this was before both shoulders of yours truly under went rotator cuff surgery. i now shoot at 62# as easier to draw in cold weather and not worried about a rotator cuff tear happening again.   i go for maximum penetration on big northern whitetails, hate tracking them onto the neighbors or over hill and dale.

https://www.simmonssharks.com/node/52
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Title: Re: My old BOW.
Post by: [Blocked] on January 19, 2012, 12:35:07 PM
It might make a difference that your chrono is calibrated for bullets, not arrows. I don't know but I have never heard of a bow or a crossbow topping 400 fps.